Recruiting from the main board........

[Dukester]

Final PrepStar rating. This just came out today .......

158 - Arnaud Dahi - ODU
199 - Abdi Lidonde - ODU
235 - B.A. Walker - VCU
276 - Drew Williamson - ODU
289 - Gordon Johnson - JMU

Best of the Rest (basically 300-500)

Antoine Agudio - Hofstra
Eddie Green-Long - JMU
Makan Konate - GMU
Bashir Mason - Drexel
Carlos Rivera - Hofstra
Brian Sisti - Hofstra
Loren Stokes - Hofstra

I don't think I missed anyone, I can double-check.

FYI to VCU fans - Ryan Lambert was #218 and Andre Ingram was #272.
Also potential recruits Rekalin Sims and Nick Stafford are in the Best of the Rest.


So Hoopscoops says we had the best, it appears PrepStar thinks ODU is the best, and I think I saw another rating service that thought Hofstra had the best.

Unless one of these kids turns into David Robinson, it all comes back to coaching. In our league it's not who get, but what they can do in your system.

[jski1977]

Thats really interesting. I saw somewhere else that Dahi was #1 and Cathlin #2 in the league with both ranked in the low 100s. Certainly is seems as though ODU has a great class - but how could one guy include Cathlin so high, and the other not include him at all. I know sometimes these guys separate 5th-year guys, but Cathlin isnt that...

I am on board with you - coaching means a ton with these kids. There is no guaranteed stud that I can see. I'd just as soon toss these rankings out the window...but they are fun to look at!

[Dukester]

The one thing it shows is that alot of people think we have some decent talent to work with.

Yeah, I think it was Hoopscoop that had Cathlin in the low hundreds, and PrepStars does not even have him in the top 500! :o

Question - How are weathermen and Guro's a like?

Answer - Neither is accountable for being wrong. :wink:

I still don't know how anyone can't rank Cathlin and Johnson pretty similiar overall. :?:

[Dukes84]

Granted, coaching is important, but I still think talent wins out more than coaching in basketball. A great player will dominate even if he's poorly coached, whereas a marginal talent can get only so far even with great coaching. That's just my opinion and I've been a coach, albeit at a very low level.

As I've indicated a number of times on this board, I've only had the opportunity of seeing two incoming JMU recruits for about three-quarters of one game. It was the second matchup this past season between Cathlin and Johnson. I came away with the impression that Johnson was clearly the better talent of the two, and I've indicated that I would be surprised if any of the other JMU recruits was as talented as Johnson. Prepstars' evaluation seems to concur with that.

As I posted here a couple of weeks back, all five of JMU's incoming recruits were highly touted by Hoopscoop. Two of the recruits were listed in the top 300 for fourth year players (Cathlin and Barbosa) and two others were listed in the top 55 for fifth year players (Brimley and Johnson). Greene was listed as the no. 101 power forward.

It's obvious that recruiting is somewhat of an inexact science and that players can fall through the cracks, especially if they don't play AAU ball or participate in camps. Also, I wonder if the people putting together these lists have really seen all these players play. That's the only way one can get a good read on a player and even then that can be somewhat subjective. I'm sure the fact that a player is being recruited by a major college that that catapults him into the rankings.

Look at Johnson, for example. He wasn't even rated as an honorable mention All-Met (probably top 50 or 60 players in the D.C. area -- they have three teams or so plus a bunch of honorable mentions), yet he's included as top 300 player nationally in one rating and a top 55 player nationally in another. If one is a top 300 player, then that means on average he's one of the top 6 players in his state of residence (very simplistic way of looking at it). In other words, different evaluators see things very differently.

In any event, I'm pleased with JMU's incoming recruiting class and I think the entire CAA has done quite well with recruiting for 2004. We'll find out over the course of the next several years how good these guys really are.

[Dukester]

In any event, I'm pleased with JMU's incoming recruiting class

Me Too

I don't agree about coaching. I think generally speaking the talent levels of CAA teams are somewhat similiar throughtout the CAA (throwout Towson, and maybe W&M). The difference in my opinion has alot to do with coaching. I think Delaware had less talent then a lot of teams that finished behind them.

[jski1977]

I agree that talent CAN win out, but your very very rarely find a well-refined stud that drops through to this level. Sure, if you take LeBron James and put him in the CAA, Sherman Dillard couldnt even slow him down, but that just doesnt happen...

For that reason its up to a coach then to get the most out of a guy that may have the potential to be better than he showed in high school, to hustle his ass off if he is a step slow, or to play a few inches taller if he is a bit short. The major conference teams don't always have patient with that kind of guy...

Very, very few guys come into mid major programs as freshmen with obvious pedigree. David Robinson you'll remember grew something like 4 inches as a freshman. Brett Blizzard didnt do anything but shoot 3s and he didnt play any defense, George Evans was 38 years old :lol:

[Mr. Jablomi]

Actually, Hoopscoop had ODU #1. Using their formula, ODU had the highest cumulative score. The last time they had added up all of the classes scores, we did not have Williamson or Lidonde signed, two of our top three recruits.
That being said, Hoopscoop had Cathlin #100 in the country, and Prepstars does not have him at all. Dahi was #98 in hoopscoop.
Talent DOES win, at all levels. Expect UNCW to drop off considerably w/out BB. Ditto Drexel, w/out Battle.
Bottom line, it would appear JMU had a really nice recruiting season. It should pay dividends in the not too distant future.

[jski1977]

If talent wins at all levels...then how did Jeff Capel Sr drive your program into the ground with his foot still on the gas? You guys had much better talent than most teams in the mid-late 1990s.

Same goes for Mack McCarthy and VCU. I thought his teams were loaded from the day they enetered the CAA...

Yet over that time, the best teams were Mason and UNCW...is it just irony that most would call Larrananga and Wainright the best coaches in the CAA?

[Dukester]

Actually, Hoopscoop had ODU #1. Using their formula, ODU had the highest cumulative score.

You did? Damn you guys must be top 24. Last I heard JMU was #25 in the country on Hoopscoop! :lol:

[Mr. Jablomi]

I'll dig up the link, and show you how the value classes. Think about it, according to hoopscoop, ODU had the top recruit (Dahi), the third highest (Lidonde) and the fifth highest (Williamson) of all CAA recruits. We had the highest rated SF, PG, SG and PF of all CAA schools.

[Dukester]

MJ#2,

My comment was said tongue 'n cheek. Last fall JMU was promoting that we had the 25th rating recruiting class in the country by hoopscoop. The primary reason we were rated that high is because we signed 5 guys very early in the signing period. :wink:

[jski1977]

If ONE thing IS meaningless its those Hoopscoop team recruiting rankings which are closely tied to "the more, the merrier"!

ODU has a nice class...lets just sit back and see what ends up happening. I'm not going to get all excited that we are #2 in the league until I see that equate to wins (and less losses).

[Dukester]

Final PrepStar rating. This just came out today .......

158 - Arnaud Dahi - ODU
199 - Abdi Lidonde - ODU
235 - B.A. Walker - VCU
276 - Drew Williamson - ODU
289 - Gordon Johnson - JMU

Best of the Rest (basically 300-500)

Antoine Agudio - Hofstra
Eddie Green-Long - JMU
Makan Konate - GMU
Bashir Mason - Drexel
Carlos Rivera - Hofstra
Brian Sisti - Hofstra
Loren Stokes - Hofstra

I don't think I missed anyone, I can double-check.

FYI to VCU fans - Ryan Lambert was #218 and Andre Ingram was #272.
Also potential recruits Rekalin Sims and Nick Stafford are in the Best of the Rest.


So Hoopscoops says we had the best, it appears PrepStar thinks ODU is the best, and I think I saw another rating service that thought Hofstra had the best.

Unless one of these kids turns into David Robinson, it all comes back to coaching. In our league it's not who get, but what they can do in your system.

EGL and Loren Stokes in the same category. I guess rating high school players is not an exact science.

:lol:

[JMUHarpoo]

maybe it is science, but those doing the ratings aren't scientists. Hmmmmmm.

[Dukes84]

Agudio, Rivera and Mason also turned out pretty well.

I think one can give any recruiting class two grades. One when the class is announced on paper. The other, several years in, when we evaluate in hindsight how good a class is. While talent is the top factor, in my opinion, coaching, work ethic and staying healthy also play big factors.

It's pretty apparent that JMU's recruiting classes were probably overrated. Injuries, however, played a huge factor with guys like Todd Moret, Ulrich Kossepka, David Cooper, Daniel Freeman, Pat Mitchell, Tim Lyle, Kenny Whitehead, Ron Anderson, Chris Williams and others.

I like Keener's freshman class from last season. Even more so, I like his incoming class for this fall, to include the transfers.